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New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby jgarvas » Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:27 pm

This page is going to be discuss issues related to the new OFCC Website features we're slowly activating. If you found this thread before the website itself, go check out http://OhioCCW.org for updates we're working on.

The new area of our website that we believe will become very popular with the forums is our wiki. http://OhioCCW.org/wiki -- The purpose of this website is to tap those of you here who really really understand the law of Ohio quite well, or are willing to delve into a topic and learn it left and right, and to document it our wiki so that anyone can fully understand that aspect of Ohio gun law. This area of our website will require you to be able to spell check your work and fully document it. This will not be an area of our website where opinion or conjecture will be published, but where a "matter of fact" analysis of the law will be documented. At the moment, new account generation is not functional while we focus on getting the greater aspects of the website functional. If you'd like to become Wiki contributor, give us at least a few days to turn that on and PM me some examples of topics you'd like to explore / author.

The beauty of the Wiki is that you can generate new pages in it similar to the forums software, in realtime. The way the links are generated they will become very highly ranked in search engines too, for instance: http://ohioccw.org/wiki/Owning_a_Firearm_in_Ohio

Finally - I know a lot is likely broken in the main OhioCCW.org page because I just turned it on around 2:00pm Monday. Give us some time to work on the kinks and feel free to post questionable stuff here so we can address broken stuff.
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Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.

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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby pleasantguywhopacks » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:12 pm

Would be nice to have a button link to both OFCC Legal Defense Fund donation and NRA ILA donation on there..sometimes you will get people that are conducive to a spur of the moment click instead of searching the pull downs.
Last edited by pleasantguywhopacks on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby wkdravenna » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:14 pm

Looking good.. I think it looks nice and is simple enough.
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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby jgarvas » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:24 pm

pleasantguywhopacks wrote:Would be nice to have a button link to both OFCC Legal Defense Fund donation and NRA ILA donation on there..sometimes you will get people that are conducive to a spur of the moment click instead of searching the pull downs.


Hmm. I like this idea more than you think, but its going to take a few days because I want to use a new component for fund raising we're going to add.
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Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.

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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby rradenheimer » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:36 pm

Is this OFCC 2.0? The functionality enhancements are nice. The wiki is an excellent idea also. I am very appreciative of the time you have invested in these changes Jeff. Thanks!
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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby Gaspode » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:05 pm

The problem I have with a wiki is that anyone can add or subtract information. By removing the word "or" in a few places in the ORC the laws meanings change drastically. Short of having someone such as Werz, MyWifeSaidYes or Bobk moderating it I would be hesitant to believe what I was reading as factual.
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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby rradenheimer » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:11 pm

Gaspode wrote:The problem I have with a wiki is that anyone can add or subtract information. By removing the word "or" in a few places in the ORC the laws meanings change drastically. Short of having someone such as Werz, MyWifeSaidYes or Bobk moderating it I would be hesitant to believe what I was reading as factual.


I am sure there would be some kind of governance. As you stated Werz, MWSY, or BobK would be excellent moderators.
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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby jgarvas » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:13 pm

Gaspode wrote:The problem I have with a wiki is that anyone can add or subtract information. By removing the word "or" in a few places in the ORC the laws meanings change drastically. Short of having someone such as Werz, MyWifeSaidYes or Bobk moderating it I would be hesitant to believe what I was reading as factual.


It won't be like Wikipedia. We'll add accounts for people based on their demonstrated understanding of the law in here, and it will be a peer reviewed environment with disputes resolved by OFCC's legal advisors, who will not be giving legal advice either :)

If we can find a way to "moderate before publication" a change to a document, we might open it up, but to start with I fully expect the authors to be proven contributors who understand how to write and can do so without bias, etc.

In other words, the Wiki is not the place to argue what method of concealment is better, or for that matter if open carry is, but to matter-of-factly document how both are absolutely legal and why they're legal, and the legal caveats of the two. (For instance, explaining what you can't do if you OC without a license to conceal) -- etc.

The goal is to make it the absolute best resource of Ohio Gun Laws period, and to do so by using those of you here who are really good at writing about it here anyway, in an interface that will be readable and beneficial to joe blow.

Also, BobK has had an account in there for quite a few months :)
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Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.

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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby JediSkipdogg » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:14 pm

Gaspode wrote:The problem I have with a wiki is that anyone can add or subtract information. By removing the word "or" in a few places in the ORC the laws meanings change drastically. Short of having someone such as Werz, MyWifeSaidYes or Bobk moderating it I would be hesitant to believe what I was reading as factual.


I was part of the initial Wiki project and since he mentioned it I feel I can say this now. If Jeff keeps it the way the initial idea was then only certain people can add/change stuff. To anyone else it will only be visible but lacking the ability to add or change. On the initial version I had access and I'm assuming I will on the new cite. So in many cases at least for me, anything that I add that someone feels incorrect I will be glad to discuss via a post or privately. Alot of it is interpretation and at least on some of my posts, I post that depending on how one interprets something is what it can mean and that in some cases cit has not been interpreted by the court.

Reciprocity is a huge one that I spent quite a bit of time on. The hard part on that one will be keeping it updated as states change and I'm sure it's already outdated now since it was worked on earlier this spring. I also did quite a bit on Prohibited Places and School carry, both of which may carry a little more controvery but hopefully for the most part all controversy was left out and only facts were added. Hopefully a good team of members will keep the entire Wiki updated.
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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby jgarvas » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:19 pm

JediSkipdogg wrote:
Gaspode wrote:The problem I have with a wiki is that anyone can add or subtract information. By removing the word "or" in a few places in the ORC the laws meanings change drastically. Short of having someone such as Werz, MyWifeSaidYes or Bobk moderating it I would be hesitant to believe what I was reading as factual.


I was part of the initial Wiki project and since he mentioned it I feel I can say this now. If Jeff keeps it the way the initial idea was then only certain people can add/change stuff. To anyone else it will only be visible but lacking the ability to add or change. On the initial version I had access and I'm assuming I will on the new cite. So in many cases at least for me, anything that I add that someone feels incorrect I will be glad to discuss via a post or privately. Alot of it is interpretation and at least on some of my posts, I post that depending on how one interprets something is what it can mean and that in some cases cit has not been interpreted by the court.

Reciprocity is a huge one that I spent quite a bit of time on. The hard part on that one will be keeping it updated as states change and I'm sure it's already outdated now since it was worked on earlier this spring. I also did quite a bit on Prohibited Places and School carry, both of which may carry a little more controvery but hopefully for the most part all controversy was left out and only facts were added. Hopefully a good team of members will keep the entire Wiki updated.


Its the same website. The original invitees still have their exact access - what we need to do in the Wiki is find a way to re-organize the main page into a bunch of categories. Anyone who wants to take on that task please, come up with a boat load of categories that we can start using to put questions into, and then come up with a list of questions and/or legal topics to address. What you see in there right now is mostly old first-phase efforts by a handful of folks.
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Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.

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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby bearkitty » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:31 pm

Continuing a thought I posted on one of the other threads:

The "HELP WANTED" section is a great call to action! It might be better if there was a specific form/questionnaire linked within that content. It should allow volunteers to provide their contact info, state their area of expertise/interest, indicate how much time they are able to commit, provide references, submit articles, etc.

Since I keep bringing it up.......I'll draft one and send it in. 8)
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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby jgarvas » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:40 pm

bearkitty wrote:Continuing a thought I posted on one of the other threads:

The "HELP WANTED" section is a great call to action! It might be better if there was a specific form/questionnaire linked within that content. It should allow volunteers to provide their contact info, state their area of expertise/interest, indicate how much time they are able to commit, provide references, submit articles, etc.

Since I keep bringing it up.......I'll draft one and send it in. 8)


I saw that. I like that idea too and will work on a form - as soon as we plug someone into being the volunteer coordinator :)
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Ohioans For Concealed Carry

Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.

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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby wkdravenna » Mon Oct 15, 2012 2:45 pm

I guess my only thing I could be critical of is that at the bottom it says something about registering to vote. I think the deadline to register has passed. There should be a link there, linking to the OFCC Endorsements for OFCC Minded voters.
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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby jgarvas » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:01 pm

wkdravenna wrote:I guess my only thing I could be critical of is that at the bottom it says something about registering to vote. I think the deadline to register has passed. There should be a link there, linking to the OFCC Endorsements for OFCC Minded voters.


The website has been in development for quite a bit of time. That is an old calendar entry, but thank you, I'm sitting here recording "how to" videos and I need to go do one on how to edit that calendar :)
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Ohioans For Concealed Carry

Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.

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Re: New OFCC Website Discussion Thread

Postby anomaly » Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:51 pm

This wiki looks like it is going to be great -- great job guys. I am also really digging the links right into the ORC.

I know the wikimedia plugin located here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Approved_Revs would allow you to let anyone edit a page, while requiring an admin to "approve" it in order for it to become displayed. This would also be a good way of developing pages before they were chosen for "publication" on the wiki.

As an aside, if you do install that plugin or otherwise let anyone at least register an account, you might consider blockading the user pages via robots.txt or some other method.


I noticed on the concealed/open/transport section that the transport section blends transportation of a weapon with a CHL and FOPA-style transport. It is pretty unclear, and could even be construed to read that FOPA lets you CC in your car through any state.

There are several places where some general wordsmithing could help, are we at the point where there is someone to whom we could send possible edits, or do we stand down until you guys have the system figured out?
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