HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby qmti » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:24 am

Evidently all these opponents want all gun defensive shootings to be guilty in their push to rid the country of all guns. The law abiding citizen needs to give up his/her life in order to give the criminal a second chance to change his/her ways. And we will hear all the old reasons again.The prosecutors don't want the law changed because it will make them work harder to convict the victim.
Another thought. Could the anti's be packing the senate in order to prolong the debate and delay a vote for this year?
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rickt » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:35 am

Republican senators are planning to discuss the possible changes they would like to make to HB228, the so-called "Stand Your Ground" bill which might include more specific language on when to use lethal force in self-defense situations.

Sen. Bill Coley (R-West Chester) he wants the bill to clearly state three pillars; an attacker clearly shows an intent to kill or cause serious harm, has the capability to do so, and the defender is in jeopardy.


http://www.statenews.org/post/coley-wants-clarify-when-use-lethal-force-stand-your-ground-bill
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby JustaShooter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:30 am

rickt wrote:
Republican senators are planning to discuss the possible changes they would like to make to HB228, the so-called "Stand Your Ground" bill which might include more specific language on when to use lethal force in self-defense situations.

Sen. Bill Coley (R-West Chester) he wants the bill to clearly state three pillars; an attacker clearly shows an intent to kill or cause serious harm, has the capability to do so, and the defender is in jeopardy.


http://www.statenews.org/post/coley-wants-clarify-when-use-lethal-force-stand-your-ground-bill


I've read his amendment, and I want no part of it. If you claim self defense, it would require you to prove the aggressor had intent and means to cause death or severe bodily harm. I want no part of that. Make the prosecution prove the aggressor *didn't* have the intent and means, and prove I *didn't* have a legitimate fear of imminent death or severe bodily harm, as would be consistent with the very basis of our legal system.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby carmen fovozzo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:05 am

Coley should be writing material for comedians....he simply wants us to ask a attacker if they are going to attack before they attack....very funny...
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby WestonDon » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:50 am

JustaShooter wrote:
rickt wrote:
Republican senators are planning to discuss the possible changes they would like to make to HB228, the so-called "Stand Your Ground" bill which might include more specific language on when to use lethal force in self-defense situations.

Sen. Bill Coley (R-West Chester) he wants the bill to clearly state three pillars; an attacker clearly shows an intent to kill or cause serious harm, has the capability to do so, and the defender is in jeopardy.


http://www.statenews.org/post/coley-wants-clarify-when-use-lethal-force-stand-your-ground-bill


I've read his amendment, and I want no part of it. If you claim self defense, it would require you to prove the aggressor had intent and means to cause death or severe bodily harm. I want no part of that. Make the prosecution prove the aggressor *didn't* have the intent and means, and prove I *didn't* have a legitimate fear of imminent death or severe bodily harm, as would be consistent with the very basis of our legal system.


How the heck is this an improvement over the present law? Sounds like a step backwards to me. This smells like a smoke filled back room deal to me. Could this be some deal to avoid a Kasich veto?
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rottman43055 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:47 am

While surfing some news videos this morning a news guy was talking about the possible changes ( three pillars ) and said that if passed even though you would have no "duty" to retreat just the fact that you possibly could have may prove your life wasn't in danger thus making the SD claim no good. I don't know if that's accurate or not, it was just his thoughts.

The following are just my own thoughts:

It's easy to say someone could have walked away in hindsight but things often look more clear looking back or different to those who weren't actually in the situation so I'm glad to see it go.

I also believe backpedaling emboldens an aggressor to come at you even more because they see it as weakness, fear etc. making it more likely for you to have to actually follow thru and shoot.

This may be an over simplified way of looking at it, but the whole "duty" to retreat tells me that if a person wants an area to himself that others have a perfectly legal right to be at, all they have to do is become threatening and the other person is required to leave the area because their legal right to be there goes away, be it restaurant, parking lot, place in line etc. So I think it actually encourages thug like behavior.

I'm glad to see the changes being worked for and thank everyone involved. Don.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby schmieg » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:34 pm

I would rather see the affirmative defense removed and the burden of proof fully placed on the prosecutor, keeping the duty to retreat if it is a choice. Sounds like they want to do the opposite.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:21 pm

schmieg wrote:I would rather see the affirmative defense removed and the burden of proof fully placed on the prosecutor, keeping the duty to retreat if it is a choice. Sounds like they want to do the opposite.

I'd like both, but if it were an either/or I agree with you.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby pirateguy191 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:31 pm

Jim Irvine of BFA screwed the pooch. Allegedly the duty to retreat is still in the bill.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby kcclark » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:32 pm

Ohio Senate moving gun bill without stand-your-ground provision


Facing resistance within its caucus for a full stand-your-ground bill, Ohio Senate Republicans are moving forward with a stripped-down version of the controversial bill that does not eliminate the state’s current duty to retreat or significantly reduce penalties for improperly carrying a concealed handgun.

House Bill 228 was amended Thursday and now focuses on altering the burden of proof in self-defense cases. Supporters of the change say Ohio is the only state in the nation that requires a defendant to prove by a preponderance of the evidence — a lower standard than reasonable doubt — that they acted in self-defense.


https://www.dispatch.com/news/20181206/ohio-senate-moving-gun-bill-without-stand-your-ground-provision
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby pirateguy191 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:35 pm

BFA is getting obliterated on their Facebook page.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby carmen fovozzo » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:50 pm

What hell are their members doing ?
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby kcclark » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:04 pm

rickt wrote:Wow. I have never seen this many opponents testify against a gun bill before. This is at least double, possibly even three times what one normally sees.


Channel 4 in Columbus had some live coverage of the hearing during the 11 PM news. If there were any pro-gun people in the audience, I did not see them. Woman interviewed looked to be about 19 and she had no use for Stand Your Ground.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:24 pm

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20181206/ohio-senate-moving-gun-bill-without-stand-your-ground-provision
Other changes in the bill removed the penalty reduction for improperly carrying a firearm. The House-passed bill had reduced many penalties, including improperly carrying a loaded, accessible gun in a vehicle, to minor misdemeanors.

To be honest, I was really surprised at that provision (unlicensed concealed carry = MM) and I'm not at all surprised it got dropped.

The bill as passed also requires a concealed-carry license holder to show law enforcement officers that license when approached

Here's hoping this is an inaccurate summary and what they mean is the Senate passed/incorporated HB142 which would require a CHL holder to present their license when asked for other identification. That's at least an improvement over the current vague "promptly when stopped for a law enforcement purpose". If we're actually expected to make a furtive movement towards our wallets as law enforcement is approaching (!) that will be a problem. Again, fingers crossed the reporter just got the detail wrong.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rickt » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:37 pm

pirateguy191 wrote:Jim Irvine of BFA screwed the pooch. Allegedly the duty to retreat is still in the bill.


What is this in reference to?
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