Summit County Metroparks

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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Summit County Metroparks

Postby Shaolin_dragon » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:20 pm

I did a search for this, and found one search result, but it was from 2008, and figured the rules had since changed.

It appears that Summit County Metroparks still post "weapons prohibited" signs. A friend of mine was down by Peninsula this afternoon and he let me know this evening that the park still posts. I looked on the SCMP website, and sure enough, on their website it states..

8. The following actions/items are prohibited: littering; hunting, trapping and feeding wildlife; removing flowers, shrubs and other property; disorderly conduct; public indecency and nudity; alcoholic beverages; firearms and fireworks; camping; commercial enterprises; posting and distributing signs or advertisements.


So I downloaded the full rules and regs and under section 6.1 it states
6.1 Weapons and Firearms: No person except Park
Rangers or other certified peace officers of Metro Parks,
Serving Summit County shall possess, carry, control,
discharge, use, brandish, convey, or attempt to convey
firearms of any description, deadly weapons, dangerous
ordinances, explosive substances, or replica weapons in the
Park without first obtaining a written permit from the
Director-Secretary, unless otherwise authorized by law.The
term “weapons” shall include, but is not limited to: firearms;
compressed gas or spring-powered pistols or rifles; air
rifles; bows and arrows; crossbows; paintball markers;
blowguns; spearguns; spears; edged weapons; swords; darts;
sling-shots; irritant gas devices; explosive devices; any other
implement designed to discharge missiles; and any other
weapon, the possession of which is prohibited under the
laws of the State of Ohio.The term “replica weapons” shall
include any device which might reasonably be perceived to
be a real weapon.


Does the "unless authorized by law" section clear CHL holders from this? I didn't think it did, but I could be wrong.

Links to relevant websites

Metroparks website - http://www.summitmetroparks.org/InsideMetroParks/RulesAndRegulations.aspx

Full rules and regs - http://www.summitmetroparks.org/getdoc/9471247e-f559-456a-abab-c2c31c68eef8/MPSSC_Rules-Regs100108.aspx
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby jahcal7 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:17 am

You ARE indeed allowed to cc or oc at all Summit County Metroparks. And these answers come from my own speakings to Doug Shepard the Summit County Metroparks Chief Director,The Division of Ohio Parks and one other woman who works in the offices at the S.C.M. As Mr.Shepard pointed out, in there rules where it says unless otherwise permitted by law, does apply to us. All they are concerned with is LEGAL carry and responsibility. They do comply with all state gun laws and rights! :D
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby charben » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:47 am

jahcal7 wrote:They do comply with all state gun laws and rights! :D


That's fine, and all, but the posted rules are NOT in compliance. Not every visitor to the parks can speak (or will know to speak) to Mr. Sheperd.
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby jahcal7 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:25 pm

They said in there rules that are posted, it does say unless otherwise authorized by law, and that they mean in regards to anyone who can legal carry. I agree with you, my first visit there I was doing open carry and on my way out seen the rules and read them. And when I seen that, I freaked out and got the heck out of there. That's exactly what led me to get on the phones for bottom line answers.
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby Brian D. » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:31 pm

jahcal7 wrote:unless otherwise authorized by law


That little four (or five) word phrase has been a thorn in all our sides for WAY too long now! :x
Last edited by Brian D. on Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby cashman966 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:02 pm

jahcal7 wrote:They said in there rules that are posted, it does say unless otherwise authorized by law, and that they mean in regards to anyone who can legal carry. I agree with you, my first visit there I was doing open carry and on my way out seen the rules and read them. And when I seen that, I freaked out and got the heck out of there. That's exactly what led me to get on the phones for bottom line answers.


Open carry is not authorized by law. It is not prohibited. I'm with charbin the rules as worded are not in compliance with State law.

Regardless of what the Parks employees say the wording means, at a minimum it bans open carry and depending on your interpretation of "unless otherwise authorized" it bans carry by anyone other than LEOs.

The simple fix is to eliminate the word "firearm" from the rule as they have no authority to regulate carry in any way.
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby jahcal7 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:53 am

Cashman966,
Im not sure if there's a misunderstanding of the use of words here or not, but when one says something is authorized by law that means it is legal. Open carry is completely legal in the state of Ohio and the metroparks comply with state law. Are you saying open carry is not legal in this state? Im confused and may just be reading your post wrong. All I know is, I didn't just talk with some young punk park employee, but I went up pretty high on the poll.

Me myself, will be ccing and ocing there all the time, including today, and I think its safe to say that such has been cleard and approved to do. They really just need to change those freakin rules though regardless, to make this thing cut and dry.
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby pirateguy191 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:12 am

jahcal7 wrote:Cashman966,
Im not sure if there's a misunderstanding of the use of words here or not, but when one says something is authorized by law that means it is legal. Open carry is completely legal in the state of Ohio and the metroparks comply with state law. Are you saying open carry is not legal in this state? Im confused and may just be reading your post wrong. All I know is, I didn't just talk with some young punk park employee, but I went up pretty high on the poll.

Me myself, will be ccing and ocing there all the time, including today, and I think its safe to say that such has been cleard and approved to do. They really just need to change those freakin rules though regardless, to make this thing cut and dry.


I believe what Cashman is saying is that the ORC tells you what you CAN'T do, not what you CAN do. Since there is nothing stating that you CAN'T open carry in the ORC, it IS legal to do so.
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby charben » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:19 pm

Jahcal7:

We've been around this block a few times with regard to the "unless authorized by law" phrase. Simply put, that phrase does NOT give CHL holders any kind of exemption. Look at the example picture in the AG Handbook (yes, I know that booklet is not "the law").

The bottom line is that Summit County Metroparks are in violation. Whether they enforce them or not, the rules, as posted, imply that they will...and they have no legal ability to do so.
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby jahcal7 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:22 am

Charben,

I see the points that are being said now. That is pretty messed up its like that. But dispite the language of the rules of the parks, I feel its ok to carry based on the words of the 3 individuals I have spoken to, being that they are not just some park employee for the summer. I think the Ohio Division of Parks and the Chief Director do indeed carry some authority on this matter..and which they have all said the parks to comply with state law and rights for gun carry. The language is there posted rules, should surely be altered to say what they say. I wonder why they don't change the language in the rules?
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby charben » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:32 am

jahcal7 wrote:Charben,

I see the points that are being said now. That is pretty messed up its like that. But dispite the language of the rules of the parks, I feel its ok to carry based on the words of the 3 individuals I have spoken to, being that they are not just some park employee for the summer. I think the Ohio Division of Parks and the Chief Director do indeed carry some authority on this matter..and which they have all said the parks to comply with state law and rights for gun carry. The language is there posted rules, should surely be altered to say what they say. I wonder why they don't change the language in the rules?


Who knows? Some excuses have been cost. Others have been time. Either way, those signs need to be changed.

It's great that you feel ok to carry there. I would, too...even if I had not spoken to those that you have spoken to. But there are many people in Ohio who are licensed and do not follow this forum or take the opportunity to call the Ohio Division of Parks. We are an organization that is concerned about the entire population...not just individuals. If we just stopped every time we had a personal conversation with someone who told us it was ok to do something, we would not have made the progress that we have! ;)
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby pleasantguywhopacks » Sun Jul 24, 2011 3:50 pm

If one visitor to that park from outside or in Ohio is stopped by that sign from carrying then the sign county has violated their rights. The sign needs to come down. It isn't about knowing someone who says its ok. It is about being against state law to post it.
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby jahcal7 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:31 pm

So that personally leads me to ask, what can be done to have that sign,under those rules and regulations section, changed and/or removed? What do we do at this point? Where does one man, such as myself, begin?
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby charben » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:35 pm

jahcal7 wrote:So that personally leads me to ask, what can be done to have that sign,under those rules and regulations section, changed and/or removed? What do we do at this point? Where does one man, such as myself, begin?


Currently, I am the point-man in this organization for handling such things. Of course, I am only one person and can always use help!

I would suggest that, if you have a relationship with the people you spoke with before, reconnect with them and explain that it is not enough for them to simply tell you it's ok. Ask them what it would take for them to change the signs to come into compliance with the law. Then ask what kind of time frame to expect. Don't be argumentative (I don't expect you will based on your posts here--but I have to say it) but be polite. Approach it as if you are attempting to help them come into compliance with the law.

If they resist at this point, politely disengage and then contact me via PM here.
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Re: Summit County Metroparks

Postby jahcal7 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:23 am

Charben,

Tell me, do you think it would be better for me to call and talk or to write an email or even a letter?
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