.44Spl/Mag Coated SWCHP loads

To learn and introduce new loaders. Tips and tricks from old timers.

Moderators: Coordinators, Moderators

.44Spl/Mag Coated SWCHP loads

Postby Morne » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:55 pm

58 F, 71% RH, 30.04" Hg

***CHRONY DATA***
5 data points per powder load/bullet/primer combination unless otherwise noted. Chrono positioned approximately 10-feet from the muzzle.

.44 Spl 248-gr Coated SWCHP, WLP LPP, Accurate #5 Powder, 1.565-1.580" COAL
Taurus Tracker with 4" ported barrel

6.2-gr AVERAGE = 615 fps; ES = 30.6
6.5-gr AVERAGE = 620 fps; ES = 23.5
6.8-gr AVERAGE = 649 fps; ES = 44.6

.44 Spl 248-gr Coated SWCHP, WLP LPP, W231 Powder, 1.564-1.574" COAL
Taurus Tracker with 4" ported barrel

4.2-gr AVERAGE = 598 fps; ES = 47.1
4.7-gr AVERAGE = 627 fps; ES = 14.0
5.2-gr AVERAGE = 707 fps; ES = 32.3

.44 Mag 248-gr Coated SWCHP, WLP LPP, W231 Powder, 1.682-1.692" COAL
Taurus Tracker with 4" ported barrel

5.9-gr AVERAGE = 737 fps; ES = 22.9
6.9-gr AVERAGE = 828 fps; ES = 3.6 (*note = only 4 data points*)
7.8-gr AVERAGE = 883 fps; ES = 18.3
9.0-gr AVERAGE = 986 fps; ES = 9.0
10.4-gr AVERAGE = 1083 fps; ES = 39.0

.44 Mag 248-gr Coated SWCHP, WLP LPP, Accurate #7 Powder, 1.682-1.692" COAL
Taurus Tracker with 4" ported barrel

14.7-gr AVERAGE = 991 fps; ES = 26.7
15.5-gr AVERAGE = 1042 fps; ES = 65.0
16.2-gr AVERAGE = 1097 fps; ES = 73.0

Thoughts:

That W231 10.4-gr load was stout. In fact, extracting the empty casings from the cylinder required a punch and a hammer. While the books show 11.0-gr W231 as the maximum load for 240-gr lead slugs I daresay we are getting uncomfortably close to bad things happening here at 10.4-gr.

On the other hand, the 16.2-gr Accurate #7 load was just fine. It had a bit wider ES but not awful.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.

Remember, only you can prevent big government!
User avatar
Morne
OFCC Director
OFCC Director
 
Posts: 10378
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: Wayne County

Re: .44Spl/Mag Coated SWCHP loads

Postby Sevens » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:15 pm

That should be a vivid demonstration of a -BAD- idea.

I don't honestly understand why Hodgdon even lists max loads for a fast-burning target/pistol powder in .44 Mag.

For the casual onlooker-- see the evidence here. Max load of a too-fast-for-magnum powder in a large magnum revolver round with a typical for caliber weight bullet.
1) low charge weight, takes maybe half the available space
2) pressure, even as shown published, is FULL MAX
3) pressure, as evidenced clearly with extraction trouble: -MAX- (more?)
4) velocity, as shown in published data? Lame for a max load
5) velocity, as shown with chrono results? Lame for a max load

It literally took me YEARS to see the light in this area. Max loads of fast powder in magnum revolver rounds is one of the worst pitfalls of handgun cartridge Handloading. It might help to also know & believe that a MAX LOAD of H110/W296 (or AA#9, or 2400, or 300-MP...) is not only going to give you 150-250 more FPS... it's SAFER for your gun (and your hands and your face and your friends...)

Not picking on you or what you have offered here, but it's just such a fine example of something to absolutely be avoided.

How, why do many folks fall in to this trap? Very easy to fall in to this. On paper... you see quickly that you can make "magnum" loads with HALF the powder! Plus, it's a powder you already have for 9mm, .38 and .45! Easy to see why a newer handloader would make these loads. I surely did.

The newer handloader hasn't any idea that 10 grains of W231 or Titegroup is -way- more dangerous than 20 grains of 2400.

The only thing better than the great data and reporting you showed here would be a line graph showing the pressure curve and how this one compares to 20gr of 2400.

The -ONLY- better indicator of pressure in a revolver round than difficult extraction is blood and flying gun parts.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
User avatar
Sevens
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 7312
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 8:30 am
Location: Far East Side of CBus

Re: .44Spl/Mag Coated SWCHP loads

Postby Morne » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:23 pm

If I owned Accurate #9 powder I would try it. I don't, so Accurate #7 is closest I can do.

And yeah, I knew that W231 was dicey going into this. Only did it because it was an easy way to build a complete ladder from bottom end special up into magnum territory. Knowing there could be problems I chrono'ed these last - that sticky extraction wasn't a surprise to me.

I'm going to build more of the 16.2-gr Accurate #7 loads and shoot them through some 6.5" and 12" barrels to see where that velocity lands.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.

Remember, only you can prevent big government!
User avatar
Morne
OFCC Director
OFCC Director
 
Posts: 10378
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: Wayne County

Re: .44Spl/Mag Coated SWCHP loads

Postby Sevens » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:11 pm

I'm glad you made these and you reported your findings so succinctly... it paints a very clear picture of how a fast target powder reacts and performs in a large magnum revolver round. If you had used AA#2, Titegroup, Zip, Red Dot, Promo, Bullseye or Clays... similar results!

Low charge weight
Everything seems fine UNTIL sticky extraction
Moderate velocity-- even at max load/max pressure
Felt recoil AND sound all seem lesser than a true magnum load

...you get all of the above while running absolute TOP safe pressure (or beyond since the case has plenty of room inside to add FAR too much.)

You literally cannot put enough H110 under a 240gr slug in .44 Mag to blow up a sturdy, modern revolver because it burns slowly and peaks at the proper time. Try the same with Titegroup and it peaks crazy fast and there is nearly twice the available internal space... there may actually be no better way to grenade a revolver, save for an obstruction.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
User avatar
Sevens
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 7312
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 8:30 am
Location: Far East Side of CBus

Re: .44Spl/Mag Coated SWCHP loads

Postby Sevens » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:19 pm

I actually have a fine pet load that I use in .44 Magnum with a FAST powder. That load is a hard cast 240gr lead semi-wadcutter seated to crimp groove over 5.7 grains of Titegroup. That load is a pleasure to shoot and returns a steady 870fps from my 7.5" barreled Ruger Redhawk.

There may be enough room to nearly QUADRUPLE that charge because Titegroup is very dense.

This load is an example of where & how an ultra-fast pistol powder can be effectively and safely used for a great load in .44 Magnum. And when I want to make a proper .44 Magnum thumper load, to properly make full-spec .44 Mag, I use the same bullet over a fat charge of AA#9. Without looking it up, I think it is near 18 grains. I can also do it with somewhere around 20 grains of Alliant 2400. Both of these loads take me past 1,275 fps and both of these loads do it safely.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
User avatar
Sevens
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 7312
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 8:30 am
Location: Far East Side of CBus

Re: .44Spl/Mag Coated SWCHP loads

Postby Morne » Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:16 pm

Thoughts on trying 22.0-gr of Lil'Gun? Same bullet and primer.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.

Remember, only you can prevent big government!
User avatar
Morne
OFCC Director
OFCC Director
 
Posts: 10378
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: Wayne County

Re: .44Spl/Mag Coated SWCHP loads

Postby Sevens » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Well, we both know that Lil'Gun is the powder KING of erosion and it damages revolvers.

Setting that aside, Lil'Gun is a very slow burning powder that can whip up fantastic velocities in magnum revolvers. A max load of that powder would work well in .44 Mag, I bet. And a safer load than a max charge of W231. It'll have more recoil, will be louder and will give more velocity. If you load under the publsihed start loads with a slow-burning powder, you'll likely get erratic performance and a lot of unburned flakes.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
User avatar
Sevens
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 7312
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 8:30 am
Location: Far East Side of CBus

Re: .44Spl/Mag Coated SWCHP loads

Postby Morne » Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:10 am

See, what's weird to me is that most of the published Lil'Gun data is only for jacketed bullets. Since we're shooting coated here I'm supposed to be looking at lead data.

Now I have searched some and found where people have used Lil'Gun for lead bullets in .44 Mag to good result.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.

Remember, only you can prevent big government!
User avatar
Morne
OFCC Director
OFCC Director
 
Posts: 10378
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: Wayne County

Re: .44Spl/Mag Coated SWCHP loads

Postby willbird » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:17 pm

Morne wrote:See, what's weird to me is that most of the published Lil'Gun data is only for jacketed bullets. Since we're shooting coated here I'm supposed to be looking at lead data.

Now I have searched some and found where people have used Lil'Gun for lead bullets in .44 Mag to good result.



IMHO the case neck tension becomes quite important with H110 and probably Lil Gun too and cast or other lead alloy bullets. Many people devote ZERO time to case neck tension as long as they cannot spin a bullet after seating :-). The jacketed bullet again IMHO is more tolerant of case neck tension ills.

Also many commercial lead/antimony/maybe-tin bullets are not made to fit the throat and of a good enough alloy to work with true magnum level loads. So the powder mfg aim their data at mid range loads with non jacketed bullets. I have seen quite a few people working with decent plain base 429421 having issues at first with H110/WW296 until they find guidance and polish down their expander button to increase case neck tension...then things start working better.

Lots and lots of revolvers were made with HUGE throats too, my early mfg Redhawk 44 magnum has .433 throats....it does not work well at all with any typical .430 dia cast bullets. Then Ruger(and some other makers too) went the other way in later years and some 45 colts ended up with .450 throats...that can be fixed anyway ;-).

Casting a non gas check magnum pistol bullet that will run wide open can be done....but only with lots of luck will the average person pull it off with off the shelf dies and purchased cast bullets.

Bill
Have a great day today unless you have made other plans :-).
willbird
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
 
Posts: 11210
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 am
Location: Exit 13 on the ohio Turnpike :-)


Return to Handloading

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests